tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post1937526091858379219..comments2023-10-31T08:48:55.890-04:00Comments on Daf Yomi DafYomi Daf-Yomi: Must a Prospective Bride Inform the Groom regarding her Absence of Blood?Avromihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13593992238707872967noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-86113274859497837432007-12-17T17:04:00.000-05:002007-12-17T17:04:00.000-05:00Dear Rabbi Waxman:The analysis supplied regarding ...Dear Rabbi Waxman:<BR/><BR/>The analysis supplied regarding the women of the Dorkati family in your blog “Must A Potential Bride Mention She Has Not Yet Experienced Menarche?,” while perhaps sensitive to the issues addressed, is almost assuredly incorrect from a biological perspective. <BR/><BR/>The women of several generations of the Dorkati family do not menstruate (suggesting a genetic link); Dorkati, of course, means "cut off generation" suggesting they are also unable to bear biological children. By far the most probable explanation for this is that these women have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS), an X linked recessive medical condition. This means that they inherited the condition from their mothers (in one-third of cases AIS occurs spontaneously, but with the Dorkatis we see members of a single family unit all with the same condition and therefore it would be inherited). <BR/><BR/>These women are chromosomally XY. This explains why their mothers (who are XX and carriers) do not have AIS while their daughters can. Women with complete AIS do not develop as males because their bodies are completely insensitive to the effects of androgens. They are female in appearance and, more importantly, female in psycho-sexual orientation. They do not have ovaries, do not menstruate, and cannot conceive-no current reproductive technologies can change this. Because you do not know me, you have no reason to accept or reject this explanation, but I invite you to raise the issue with any pediatric endocrinologist; they will confirm that AIS is almost assuredly what explains the situation with the Dorkati women. <BR/><BR/>Women like the Dorkatis should be regarded as female for purposes of marriage, although if known in advance disclosure of such a condition is, I believe, the only ethically sound approach, despite the potential of rejection, given that their infertility will impact their partners. I speak from personal experience: I have AIS and disclose this fact almost immediately to men I date so that they can make an informed decision about whether to date me. I certainly would never marry someone without disclosing it; this can only lead to eventual heartache for all concerned. <BR/><BR/>There are many roads to parenthood, and a member of the Dorkati family, like a woman born today with the same condition, will need to find a loving and tolerant partner who can accept these facts. Love and tolerance aren't tested when everything goes "right," but instead are measured when confronting any of life's many challenges.<BR/>Sherri G. Morris, J.D., LL.M.<BR/><BR/>Senior Writer/Analyst<BR/><BR/>CCH, a Wolters Kluwer business<BR/><BR/>(847) 267-2589<BR/><BR/>sherri.morris@wolterskluwer.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-58448663296960775912007-09-12T15:05:00.001-04:002007-09-12T15:05:00.001-04:00not really. I need to read the teshuva in a lot mo...not really. I need to read the teshuva in a lot more depth first, and would need to do a lot more research.<BR/><BR/>my first inkling would be that these doctors were saying that there was something hormonal involved, and so having intercourse would make various hormonal conditions different, so as to spark menarche. For an example of how environment can impact menarche, I found this article:<BR/><BR/>http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:xhOLdjkgeM4J:genepi.qimr.edu.a...<BR/><BR/>"Girls who grow up in households with an unrelated adult male reach menarche earlier than peers, a<BR/>finding hypothesized to be an evolutionary strategy for families under stress."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-59345822886358825202007-09-12T15:05:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:05:00.000-04:00Thank you, do you have any insights on the biologi...Thank you, do you have any insights on the biological facts? ThanksAvromihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593992238707872967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-48640311295204199502007-09-12T15:04:00.001-04:002007-09-12T15:04:00.001-04:00If anyone would like to look at the actual text of...If anyone would like to look at the actual text of the relevant Igros Moshe, I posted images of it on my blog.<BR/><BR/>See here:<BR/>http://parsha.blogspot.com/2007/09/igros-moshe-even-haezer-iii-sima...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-65138114994878478922007-09-12T15:04:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:04:00.000-04:00Firstly, Rem Moshe brings a proof from the manner ...Firstly, Rem Moshe brings a proof from the manner in which most of the Rishonim learn this Gemora that this particular family did not menstruate, and nevertheless, they had children.<BR/><BR/>I do not know how that is possible, but it is clearly the way the Rishonim are learning the Gemora. (The woman claimed she was from the Dartiki family, which does not have blood, but yet, she exists.)<BR/><BR/>Secondly, Reb Moshe was presented with this case in his times, and he based his conclusion on the opinion some doctors who said that after cohabitation, she will begin to menstruate. He is not saying that this woman will bear children without cycling; he is stating that there is some connection between cohabitation and the commencement of her menstruation cycle.<BR/><BR/>YasherkoachAvromihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593992238707872967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-87012774794489898792007-09-12T15:03:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:03:00.000-04:00Another one of your magic mystery medical cases. I...Another one of your magic mystery medical cases. If the girl is cycling she can get pregnant. This would show up in the blood test even back even in ancient times like the 1950's. If she is not cycling, no doctor in the world will say that she willl get pregnant until they have an idea of why she isn't cycling. The amount of menstrual blood is totally not revalent. So Reb Moshe did not ask the doctors the correct questions (highly unlikely since Rabbi Tendler at least would know to ask) or this shut doesn't make any sense.<BR/>Of course there is nothing particualraly unusual about a woman not having menstrual blood before age 20. This use to be close to the average age about 100 years ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com