tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post2121766766929234033..comments2023-10-31T08:48:55.890-04:00Comments on Daf Yomi DafYomi Daf-Yomi: PILEGESH - Yevamos 37 - Daf YomiAvromihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13593992238707872967noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-26198008673746166252007-06-11T14:25:00.000-04:002007-06-11T14:25:00.000-04:00You are right, but that is what he says - I don't ...You are right, but that is what he says - I don't believe he has more of a proof to this from the sugyaAvromihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593992238707872967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-52811945933046306222007-06-11T14:24:00.000-04:002007-06-11T14:24:00.000-04:00Quote "Reb Yaakov Emden understands the Gemora tha...Quote "Reb Yaakov Emden understands the Gemora that Rav and Rav Nachman were not offering kiddushin and kesubah to these women who were involved in these brief relationships."<BR/><BR/>IMHO this is a big assumption. If they needed the wife, why wouldn't they go all the way with Kiddushin in order to Mikayaim it properly. He's assuming that if there would be no Din of Pilagshim, they wouldn't have married them for one night. What would they have done if there was no other option and Pelagshim where Assur?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-41971846607319077632007-06-10T14:30:00.000-04:002007-06-10T14:30:00.000-04:00Reb Yaakov Emden understands the Gemora that Rav a...Reb Yaakov Emden understands the Gemora that Rav and Rav Nachman were not offering kiddushin and kesubah to these women who were involved in these brief relationships. Rather, the relationship must have been one of pilagshus in which the critical constraint is simply that for the designated period, the relationship should be an exclusive one for the woman. By demonstrating this post-biblical example of permitted pilagshus, Reb Yaakov Emden defuses a possibility raised by the Rivash (Teshuvos HaRivash 395) and the Radvaz (Teshuvos HaRadbaz 1296) that (almost) all biblical cases of pilagshim preceded the decree of Dovid HaMelech on yichud penuya and that from that time forward pilagshim were forbidden as well. Here is a case which transpired afterwards and nevertheless, it was mutar (in his opinion). [with assistance from Ben Chorin]Avromihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593992238707872967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-12797297087901999572007-06-10T14:20:00.000-04:002007-06-10T14:20:00.000-04:00Quote "Alternatively, you can answer that they wou...Quote "Alternatively, you can answer that they would only seclude themselves with the women. This protected them from sin because of the saying, “You cannot compare one who has bread in his basket with one who doesn't have bread in his basket.”<BR/><BR/>Rabbi Yaakov Emden in Shailos Ya’avetz (2:15) cites this Gemora as support for his opinion that it is permitted for a man to have a pilegesh (a woman designated for this man, but without a kesuvah or kiddushin)."<BR/><BR/>How does this prove permitting Pelegesh. Pashut the Gemara is saying that he married them completely on condition not to have Biya with them and divorce them the next day if they didn't have Biya (see Tosfos) but where does it infer how the marriage was set up (with Kiddushin or without Kiddushin. With Kesuva or without Kesuva)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-7454712698619938952007-06-10T14:18:00.001-04:002007-06-10T14:18:00.001-04:00It obviously was a different culture then, but I w...It obviously was a different culture then, but I will look into (time providing) someone who addresses the issue head on. As far as the marriage for one day, there might have been many women who would want the opportunity to be married to the gadol hador. Some say that it was for more than one day.Avromihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593992238707872967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30932360.post-79903392093215379162007-06-10T14:18:00.000-04:002007-06-10T14:18:00.000-04:00OK, I find this whole thing very puzzling -- to ma...OK, I find this whole thing very puzzling -- to marry someone for one day?! Yikes, who would agree to that?! And the whole bread basket thing... I mean, didn't they have any smoother strategies for overcoming desire?<BR/><BR/>Sorry, I just don't get this...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com