Daf Yomi - Sukkah 22 - Highlights

1. The Mishna states that a Sukkah that is meduvleless is valid. There is a dispute regarding the meaning of the word meduvleless. One opinion maintains that it means a Sukkah that is covered with only a small amount of s’chach, whereas the other opinion maintains that it means that the s’chach is placed with one reed up and one reed down. (22a1)
2. Even if there is three tefachim open space between the upper reed and the lower reed, the Sukkah will only be invalid if the top of the reeds is not a tefach wide. If the top level of the reeds is a tefach wide, however, then the Sukkah will be valid. The reason for this ruling is because we say chavot remi, lower and place the top reeds on the space below. (22a2)
3. The Mishnah in Oholos states that if the beams of a two-story house do not have plaster on them, and the beams are placed corresponding to each other, if there is corpse tumah beneath one of the lower beams, any vessel that is underneath that beam will be tamei. If the tumah is between the lower and upper beam, however, a vessel that is between the beams will be tamei. If the tumah is above the upper beam, a vessel that is opposite the tumah above the beam until the heaven is tamei. (22a2)
4. Regarding a mavoi that requires an adjustment of a korah or a lechi, if a korah extends from one wall of a mavoi and does not extend to the other wall of the mavoi, or two korahs extend from two opposite walls and the korahs are not long enough to reach each other, there is a dispute. The Tanna Kamma maintains that if the space between the beams is less than three tefachim wide, we apply the principle of lavud and the space is deemed to be closed and one can carry within the entranceway. If the space between the beams is more than three tefachim, however, one must fill in the space with another korah. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel maintains that if the space between the two korahs or between the korah and the wall is less than four tefachim wide, one is not required to bring another korah. If the space is more than four tefachim, however, one must bring another korah to close off the space. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel maintains that we apply the principle of lavud to a space that is les than four tefachim. (22a3-22b1)
5. We learned previously on Daf 2a that a Sukkah that has more sunlight than shade is invalid, implying that if the sunlight and shade were equal, then the Sukkah would be valid. Yet, the Mishna here states that if the shade is more than the sunlight, the Sukkah is valid, which implies that if the shade and sunlight are equal, then the Sukkah is invalid. The Gemara answers that our Mishna refers to the shade and sunlight above, i.e. the thickness of the s’chach itself, which means that there is more solid s’chach than open space. This implies that if the solid part of the s’chach is equal to the open space, the Sukkah is invalid because there will be more sunlight than shade on the floor of the Sukkah. The Mishna on Daf 2a, however, refers to the shade and sunlight on the floor of the Sukkah. When there is more sunlight than shade, the Sukkah is invalid. Yet, if the shade and sunlight on the Sukkah floor are equal, the Sukkah is deemed to be valid because equal sunlight and shade on the Sukkah floor indicates that there is more solid s’chach above than opens space. (22b2)

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 22 - A wedding under the stars

The Mishna and Gemara rule that a Sukkah that is covered as thick as a house, even if the stars cannot be seen from inside the Sukkah, the Sukkah is nonetheless valid. Why is it preferred that one see the stars while dwelling inside the Sukkah? There is a custom by Jewish weddings that the chupah take place under the stars, because this symbolizes that the couple should bear children who are as many as the stars of the heavens. The Vilna Gaon writes that the Clouds of Glory departed after the Jewish People sinned by fashioning the Golden Calf. Hashem forgave the Jewish People on Yom Kippur, and the Clouds of Glory retuned on Sukkos. The Giving of the Torah is referred to as the marriage between HaShem and the Jewish People. Perhaps this is the reason why it is preferred that one dwells in a Sukkah beneath the stars. Sukkos symbolizes that HaShem retains His love for the Jewish People, and by dwelling beneath the stars, we are likened to the bride who stands with the groom under the chupah.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 22 - Keep the rain out

The Rishonim debate what the halacha would be if one constructed his Sukkah and placed the s’chach in a manner that rain would not be able to enter the Sukkah. Rashi is quoted as maintaining that the Sukkah is still valid and Rabbeinu Tam disagrees and maintains that this would be similar to a house and the Sukkah would be invalid. There is a question that is asked on the opinion of Rashi. Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 640:4 rules that one should not use branches from a thornbush for s’chach because if the leaves fall into the Sukkah, one will be distressed and this will cause him to exit the Sukkah. Similarly, one cannot construct his Sukkah in a place that has a fetid smell because this will cause him to be uncomfortable and he will be exempt from his obligation. Following this logic, according to Rashi who maintains that a Sukkah is still valid if the rain cannot enter, it would seem to be preferable that one should place the s’chach in a manner that the rain cannot enter into the Sukkah. Thus, even if it does rain, he will be protected and he will be able to remain in the Sukkah. The answer to this question can be that there is a distinction between the cases. Using s’chach from a thornbush or positioning a Sukkah in a location where there is no smell is not prohibited, so logic would dictate that one build his Sukkah in a way that will not cause him distress and anguish. It is not preferable to place thick s’chach on a Sukkah, however, because then the Sukkah is similar to a house. Although Rashi validates the Sukkah ex post facto, it is still preferable not to build it in such a manner.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 22 - "Take a chill" out of the Sukkah

The Mishna states that if the s’chach that one placed on his Sukkah is thick like a house and the stars cannot be seen from inside, the Sukkah is still valid. Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 631 rules that it is preferable that one should place the s’chach in a manner that the stars should be seen. Mishna Berura states that if the stars can be seen in one section of the Sukkah, that is sufficient. Rabbi Braun in his sefer Shearim Hametzuyanim B’Halacha writes that many Gedolim did not construct their Sukkahs in a manner that the stars would be seen from inside. The reason for this was that these Gedolim resided in extremely harsh climates and they preferred to be able to sleep in the Sukkah without having to leave the Sukkah because of the harsh elements. For this reason they covered their Sukkahs with thick s’chach to keep out the cold and precipitation, even though this did not allow them to sleep under the stars.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 21- Lekavod Shabbos and Rosh HaShanah

The Gemara states that even the casual conversation of Torah scholars requires study. The Zohar states that a Torah scholar is in the category of Shabbos. One should be careful to minimize his speech on Shabbos. This idea is alluded to in this Gemara, because a Torah scholar, who is in the category of Shabbos, is careful with his speech.

To read more inspirational thoughts regarding Shabbos, please visit www.torahthoughts.com

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 21 - Highlights

1. Rabbi Yehudah and the Chachamim debate whether an ohel not made by man is deemed to be an ohel regarding tumah or not. Rabbi Yehudah derives from a gezeirah shavah regarding the Mishkan that only an ohel that is made by man is susceptible to tumah, whereas the Chachamim maintain that the word ohel that is repeated regarding the mishkan comes to include even an ohel that was not man-made. (21a1)
2. There is a dispute regarding the children who were brought to the Shiloach spring to fill up water for the purpose of sprinkling on the sequestered Kohen who would perform the service of the Parah Adumah. The Tanana Kamma maintains that the children would descend into the water to fill up the cups whereas Rabbi Yose maintains that the children would remain sitting on the doors that had been placed on top of oxen and they would lower the cup by using a rope. (21a1-21a2)
3. Rabbi Yehudah agrees that an ohel that is not made by man but is as large as a fist is deemed to be an ohel regarding tumah. (21a2)
4. Rabbi Yehudah maintains that that they did not place doors on the oxen because a child would then be over-confident and he would stick his head or one of his limbs beyond the door and then he would become tamei from the kever hatehom, the grave in the deep. Rather, the child would ride directly on top of the ox and he would be afraid to lean over and thus he would not stick his head or limb out. (21a3-21b1)
5. The thesis that Rabbi Yehudah agrees that an ohel that is non man-made will be deemed to be an ohel if it is the size of a fist is challenged from our Mishna regarding sleeping under the bed in the Sukkah. The Mishnah implies that Rabbi Yehudah did not deem the bed to be an ohel because one who sleeps under the bed has fulfilled his obligation of dwelling in a Sukkah. Yet, if Rabbi Yehudah maintains that an ohel that is the size of a fist or more is an ohel, the one who sleeps under the bed should not be able to fulfill his obligation. The Gemara offers several answers to solve this difficulty. (21b1-21b2)
6. Rabbi Shimon maintains that a temporary ohel can negate a permanent ohel, whereas Rabbi Yehudah maintains that a temporary ohel cannot negate a permanent ohel. (21b2)Rabbi Shimon said that from the sichah of Rabban Gamliel we learn two things. The Gemara infers from the fact that Rabbi Shimon used the word sichah, casual conversation, and not the word dibbur, which means his words, that one must study even the casual conversation of Torah scholars. Proof to this is from the verse that states valeihu lo yibol, whose leaves do not wither, which can be interpreted to mean that even the leaves, i.e. the speech of a Torah scholar, do not wither, but his words contain teachings. (21b2)

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 21 - A bed without shade

The Mishna states that one who sleeps under a bed inside a Sukkah does not fulfill his obligation. The Gemara explains that this is referring to a bed which is higher than ten tefachim, which creates a barrier between the person and the Sukkah. The Rishonim question this, as we find elsewhere that something which is even a tefach high is considered an ohel. Why, then, is there a concern only regarding a bed that is ten tefachim high? The Rif writes that the reason one does not fulfill his obligation of dwelling in a Sukkah is because the bed is ten tefachim, and this would constitute a Sukkah within a Sukkah and for this reason one does not fulfill his obligation. There are various challenges to the explanation of the Rif. The Baal HaMaor disagrees with the Rif. The Ramban in Milchamos offers a novel approach that explains why one who sleeps under a bed inside the Sukkah does not fulfill his obligation. The Ramban writes that the s’chach on top of the Sukkah is deemed to be invalid with regard to the space under the bed. The reason for this is because the s’chach cannot provide shade under the bed as the bed is providing shade. One would assume that the Sukkah should be valid, but one cannot fulfill his obligation. Thus, according to the Ramban, the Sukkah is invalid with regard to the one sleeping under the bed, because the Sukkah is not providing the person with shade.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 21 - Halachic Article

I linked to this halachic article in the post regarding supports for the s'chach, however after looking at it again, I saw how comprehensive this article is regarding many halachos and specifically pertaining to a canvas sukkah. He deals with the s'chach, walls, maris ayin and many other halachic issues. It is well worth it to look there and my suggestion is to print it out as well.
I am not stating that this should be the psak halacha for you, however it is well written, extensive and cites many sources that will give you an extremely informative background and more on many sukkah related halachos. Enjoy.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 21 - Supports for the S'chach

The Gemara states that one should not support the s’chach with something that is susceptible to tumah. Since many people are currently engaged in constructing their Sukkah, it would be appropriate to mention some of the halachos pertaining to the support for the s’chach. These halachos are quoted with sources in the Sefer Nitei Gavriel from Rav Gavriel Zinner. Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 629 rules that it is preferable not to place the s’chach on something which is susceptible to tumah. It is also preferable that one should not place something which is susceptible to tumah on top of the s’chach in order that the s’chach should not scatter or fall. This issue was discussed previously on Daf 13 regarding kernels of grain here. This Halacha is true even if it is only rabbinically susceptible to tumah.There are authorities who maintain that the supporting beams for the s’chach should not be more than four tefachim wide whereas other opinions maintain that this is not a necessary requirement. One is allowed to place the s’chach directly on a stone wall but some opinions rule stringently and maintain that one should place reeds on top of the wall under the s’chach. Most halachic authorities rule that one does not have to be particular regarding the supports for the supporting beams of the s’chach. The Pri Megadim, however, rules that one should not attach his supports to the Sukkah with nails and pegs in a manner that without those supports the boards would fall. The Chazon Ish rules similarly. If one would use screws in order that the beams should not move from their positions, this would not be a concern.Even if one supports the s’chach with something that is susceptible to tumah, and certainly if he has no other option, it does not invalidate the Sukkah.

I noticed this halachic article pertaining to a canvas sukkah and regarding supporting the s'chach and I think it is worth looking at.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 20 - Food Under a Bed

The Mishna rules that if one sleeps underneath a bed, he will not fulfill his obligation of sukkah. Rashi states that the primary things one does in a sukkah is eat, drink and sleep. Sheorim Mitzuyanim B'halacha points out that it is obvious to him as to why the Mishna didn't state eating under a sukkah because it is forbidden to eat under a bed as is learned in Gemora Pesachim 112a 'food or drink which is under a bed will have an evil spirit hovering over it'.

The Toras Chaim writes that it is well known that sleep is 1/60th of death because the soul of a person leaves him at night and that is the reason there is an obligation to wash one's hands in the morning to remove the tumah which was on him during the night. It is for this reason that one shouldn't leave food under a bed because when the person is sleeping on the bed, it constitutes a 'hel hames', as if the food is situated in the same room with a corpse. It is evident from here that the concern is food under a bed only at night and only when the person is sleeping there.

The Poskim do permit the food expo-facto.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 20 - Not my Post Dear by David

Rashi q.v. “or sheratzim” gives, as an example, an “ishus”. Now it is very interesting to observe that in Hebrew the same word “ishus” can refer to a woman or to a shrew, for in English we find the same thing (and a pity to all the men who understand this all too clearly). Also interesting, the biblical source for this word can be found in Psalms 58:9, where the commentators debate if the word “aishes” therein refers to a woman or to a shrew.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 20 - Different Version by David

“we used to sleep under the bed in front of the elders”. The version found in the Rif is “beds”, in the plural, which makes a little more sense.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 20 - Yeshivos in Bavel by David

When Torah was forgotten, Ezra arose . . . Hillel of Bavel arose . . . Rav Chiah arose . . .. Rashi comments that Hillel came from Bavel, “and yeshivos had been established in Bavel since the days that the “cherish umasgar” had been exiled from Israel” just before the destruction of the first temple. However, Rashi in Gittin 6a states that there were no yeshivos in Bavel until Rav established the first on in Sura, some 7-800 years or so after the exile. Indeed, it is very difficult to definitely establish when Bavel emerged as the Torah powerhouse it became, and perhaps this difficulty prompted Tosfos to explain different from Rashi, that Hillel came from Bavel “where they had learned from Shamaya and Avtalyon”.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 19 - Highlights

The Mishna on daf 17 ruled that if the s'chach is distanced from the walls three tefachim or more, the sukkah is disqualified. If there is ineligible s'chach , the sukkah is valid, providing that it not more than four amos away from the walls. Abaye, who maintains that a wall can be created by applying the principle of "the tip of the roof extends down and we close" is forced to explain this Mishna that it is referring to a case where he made the s'chach level with the roof of the porch. This prevents the edge of the roof to be seen and therefore it cannot be extended downward.

In Pumpadisa they learned the argument between Abaye and Rava differently. They argued in a case where there were pillars in the front of the porch and they were spaced within three tefachim of each other. The debate is based on the question if lavud can be applied in a case where these pillars were intended for the porch and not for the sukkah.

In this version it was agreed upon that without pillars, the sukkah is disqualified, yet Rav Ashi chanced upon Rav Kahana sitting in such a sukkah. Rav Kahana explained to him that his sukkah had a wall because there was a pillar that was flush on one side yet visible on the other side and that is deemed as a wall.

A Braisa is cited that states that s'chach which protrudes from a sukkah is also regarded as a sukkah. There are several different explanations as to what the case is referring to. Ula learns that the s'chach and the walls extend outward from the back of the sukkah forming another sukkah and that is valid even though the center wall was intended for the other side. Rabbah and Rav Yosef learn that it is referring to where one of the outside walls extends further than the other one and the entire sukkah is deemed valid. Rav Yochanan understands it to mean that a minor part of the sukkah has more sunlight than shade, yet we are not concerned and even that part is valid. Rabbi Yoshia learns that it is referring to a case where there is less than three tefachim of ineligible s'chach.

The Gemora makes a distinction between ineligible s'chach less than three tefachim and open space less than three tefachim. The Gemora states that they both combine to complete the minimum measurement of a sukkah, however one you can sleep under and fulfill your obligation and one you cannot. Rashi learns that one can sleep under the ineligible s'chach but he can't sleep under the open space.

The Mishna cites an argument if one leans a wall against another one if the sukkah is valid. One Tanna maintains that it is disqualified because there is no roof. The Gemora cites cases where he would agree that it is valid.

There is a debate in the Mishna if one can use mats for s'chach. Some mats are susceptible to becoming tamei and thereby unfit to be used as s'chach. There is a discussion at length as to the distinctions between a large one which is usually intended for covering a sukkah and a small one which is intended for sleeping purposes. The Gemora discusses what the halacha would be if there was no specific intention.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 18 - Highlights

A sukkah that is eight amos precisely and one alternates between beams four tefachim wide and valid s'chach four tefachim wide, the sukkah is valid even according to the opinion that holds beams four tefachim wide disqualify a sukkah. The reasoning is because the sukkah will have eight contiguous tefachim of valid s'chach and with the principle of dofan akumah, the sukkah will be valid.

Abaye maintains that if one has an open area of more than three tefachim in a large sukkah, the sukkah will be valid if he reduces the open area by placing valid or even invalid s'chach in that area. If it is a small sukkah, it must be reduced through eligible s'chach.

The Gemora cites a debate regarding a sukkah that has less than three tefachim of open area in the middle of the sukkah. One opinion holds that the principle of lavud can only be applied on the side of the sukkah but not in the middle. Proofs to both opinions from halachos regarding eruvin and tumah are cited and refuted.

A tzachanta fish originating from the Bav river was ruled to be kosher because the mud there doesn't support the growth of the unkosher fish. However, they subsequently ruled that these fish are prohibited because there are other rivers that now flow into the Bav River.

If a person placed s'chach on a porch that has pillars in front of it, the sukkah is valid. This is referring to a porch where the roof is more than four amos away from the house wall and thus the principle of dofan akumah would not apply. The pillars are deemed to be walls because they are spaced less than three tefachim away from each other and with the principle of lavud, the gaps are regarded as closed.

If however, there are no pillars in front of it, there is a debate between Abaye and Rava. Abaye maintains that the sukkah is valid because we apply the principle of "the tip of the roof extends down and we close." Rava disagrees with this and holds that the sukkah is not valid.

The Gemora cites an argument between Rav and Shmuel regarding a pavilion in a valley and deliberates if it is analagous to the debate between Abaye and Rava. Rav maintains that one is allowed to carry on Shabbos inside the pavilion because we apply the principle of "the tip of the roof extends down and we close." Shmuel disagrees and rules that one is only permitted to carry within his four amos. The Gemora concludes that they are not parallel because Rav would hold of this principle only by the pavilion where the walls were made for it, however by the porch, the walls descending from the roof were intended for the porch and not for the sukkah.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 19 - Careful where you Sleep

The Gemora makes a distinction between ineligible s'chach less than three tefachim and open space less than three tefachim. The Gemora states that they both combine to complete the minimum measurement of a sukkah, however one you can sleep under and fulfill your obligation and one you cannot. Rashi learns that one can sleep under the ineligible s'chach but he can't sleep under the open space.

The Taz in O"C 632:4 explains the distinction by saying that open space is much more noticeable than ineligible s'chach and therefore one cannot sleep underneath the open area.

Tosfos asks on Rashi that if one cannot sleep under an open space area even if it less than three tefachim, where can one sleep? It is almost impossible not to have a s'chach with some opening?

The Rosh answers that this is not a concern because air space is only a problem if it is running across the entire length or width of the sukkah and that a person could be careful to avoid.

The Reshash is baffled as to why tosfos didn't answer this himself when Tosfos on the previous daf stated this in regards to the opinion who holds that the principle of lavud does not apply in the middle of the sukkah, we are still not concerned about pockets of air space because it is not running across the entire sukkah. Why did Tosfos choose to ignore this here?

There are Acharonim who attempt to answer this question.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 19 - Nothing into Something and Vice Versa

The Chacham Tzvi (59) rules that we cannot apply the principle of lavud when there is something in between. The source for this seems to be a Tosfos on our daf that states regarding ineligible s'chach less than three tefachim, that we cannot utilize lavud to consider the ineligible s'chach as if it would be valid s'chach (this would be beneficial to sleep under this area) because there presently is ineligible s'chach there.

A question is asked on this concept from a Gemora on daf 4. It is learned that if a sukkah is less than ten tefachim high and one dug a pit seven tefachim squared in the middle of the floor so that the sukkah is completed to a depth of ten tefachim, the sukkah will be valid if there is less than three tefachim between the edge of the pit and the sukkah wall. The reason why this sukkah is valid is because there is less than three tefachim from the pit to where the walls of this sukkah are situated. According to Tosfos and the Chacham Tzvi, how can we apply lavud there, when there is the ground (ledge) between the pit and the wall?

The Avnei Neizer O"C 309b resolves this question by explaining the concept of lavud. Lavud can function by creating something from nothing or it can make nothing from something. When there is open space less than three tefachim, the gap gets filled up and closed by its surroundings. This is evident from Rashi in Eruvin 9a that translates lavud as an extender. Likewise, when there is something separating a pit from the wall, lavud can extend the pit and transpose the ground to be considered open space.

The explanation in our Tosfos is that when there is ineligible s'chach less than three tefachim surrounded by valid s'chach, we cannot transpose the ineligible s'chach to nothing because there is valid s'chach surrounding it. We cannot consider this space as valid s'chach either because there is ineligible s'chach there presently.

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 18 - Mimonofshoch

The Gemora cites a dispute between Rav Acha and Ravina if we apply the principle of lavud in the middle of a sukkah. If there is an area of open space less than three tefachim running across the entire length of the sukkah, we would need to attach the two sides together to close the gap in order for the sukkah to be valid. There is a debate amongst the Rishonim if this argument pertaints solely to a small sukkah or even to a large sukkah. Tosfos maintains that lavud would be required even in relevance to a large sukkah.

Tosfos on the previous daf speculates as to what the halacha would be in the following case: One placed two tefachim of ineligible s'chach and another two tefachim of ineligible s'chach separated by less than three tefachim of airspace. Does the principle of lavud apply in this case to combine the two sections of invalid s'chach creating in total four tefachim of ineligible s'chach, thereby disqualifying this sukkah or perhaps we do not apply the concept of lavud to be stringent?

Reb Akiva Eiger asks that mimonofshoch, either way, the sukkah should be disqualified for we are compelled to utilize lavud in this case, for if not, the sukkah is invalidated not because of the ineligible s'chach, but rather due to the fact that there is an open space that needs to be closed. If we apply lavud to close the gap to avoid the concern of the open area, the sukkah will become disqualified because of the combination of the two sides of ineligible s'chach totaling four tefachim. If we do not utilize lavud, the sukkah should be disqualified due to the open space?

In summary, how can we use lavud to close the gap and discard lavud to combine the two sides?

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Daf Yomi - Sukkah 18 - Kasha from my 11 Year Old

We learned in Mishna Berura last week that open space is stricter than ineligible s'chach. If there are three tefachim of air space on a sukkah, the sukkah is disqualified, yet four tefachim (or four amos according to one opinion) of ineligible s'chach is necessary to invalidate a sukkah.

This week, we learned in halacha that a shofar with a hole in it (open space) is valid (there are some conditions to this), yet if one would close it up with material dissimilar to that of a shofar, it would disqualify the shofar. Here we see that ineligible material is stricter than open space (the hole)?

I'm impressed.

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Rosh Hashana

Please take the time to read some of our postings on Elul and Rosh Hashana at http://dafnotesdiscussion.blogspot.com/
Wishing you a K'siva V'chasima Tova

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