How Kosher?

The poskim discuss different cases of people who transgress, and how we relate to them, in light of Rabban Shimon Ben Gamliel (Rashbag)’s opinion. One situation discussed in recent times is a hotel that wishes to be certified as kosher, but with limitations. The hotel owners agree that all the food prepared in the hotel will be kosher (including only kosher meat, and no cooking of meat and milk together). However, they explicitly do not want to restrict their guests from eating milk right after meat, or even mixing (not cooking) meat and milk together. These actions are Rabbinically forbidden, but not as severe as the other potential transgressions being avoided by the certification. Rav Ovadia Yosef (Yabia Omer Y"D 4:7 and 6:3:3) rules that the rabbinate may - and should - certify the hotel, and says that Rashbag’s statement does not apply to this case. The Rambam rules like Rashbag, but says it’s good to be like the tznuim, making it a positive trait to be concerned with people’s religious welfare. Further, the Rambam may rule like Rashbag only in the case of robbery, which is more severe. Further yet, in the case of the trespassers, they may avoid the land altogether if they know that it may involve other prohibitions. In this case, without the certification, no one will avoid prohibitions, but, on the contrary, violate other ones. Finally, there are many customers who will not eat milk and meat together, and therefore the certification will make the difference for them between forbidden and permitted food. These people (including unwitting tourists) know no better, and therefore are considered anusim (forced), and we are concerned with their welfare.

Rav Moshe Feinstein (Y"D 1:52) also discusses a similar case of an establishment that agrees to only prepare kosher food (with certification), but not restrict the uses of the food by its patrons. Rav Moshe rules that the restaurant should be certified, since a certification does not have to relate to and concern external matters, even in the use of the certified food. Rav Moshe adds that this is especially true, since some of the patrons may be totally ignorant, and have the status of tinok shenishba. This would remove the rule of haliteyhu entirely, even according to Rashbag.

The Tzitz Eliezer (11:55 and 12: page 224) strenuously disputes these rulings, and states that only bad results can come from such a certification. The public at large will take the rabbinate certification much more lightly, and even the certification will be hard to enforce. The Tzitz Eliezer states that Rashbag’s statement definitely applies here, as we want to have no hand in enabling transgressions, and have no interest in ameliorating any of the transgressions involved. In his response to Rav Ovadia Yosef’s letter to him, the Tzitz Eliezer says that it seems that he and Rav Ovadia Yosef approach this halachic area differently.

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Coffee Heated by a Gentile - Yevamos 46 - Daf Yomi

The Gemora states: Anything which is normally eaten raw is not subject to the prohibition against gentile cooking. (Water does not need to be heated and therefore should not be subject to this prohibition.)

The Radvaz in his teshuvos (3:637) writes: It is permitted to drink coffee heated by a gentile and it is not subject to the prohibition against gentile cooking; even though coffee cannot be eaten in its raw state, it is something which does not eaten at a king’s table as an accompaniment to the bread and therefore it is permitted. There is also no concern that they cooked something forbidden in those pots beforehand, since it is well known that they have designated utensils for the coffee (because otherwise, the taste of the coffee would be ruined). He concludes: One should not drink coffee in the accompaniment of gentiles since that will result in many transgressions.

It is brought like that in the Hagahos from the Maharikash (114) as well. He rules that one should be stringent about drinking coffee in a coffee house of gentiles, similar to the halacha regarding wine and beer. Furthermore, it is considered a moishev leitzim (i.e. a session of jesters) and should be avoided.

The Knesses Hagedolah in his sefer Ba’ey Chayei (Y”D 145) disagrees and maintains that coffee heated by a gentile is prohibited to drink. He states: Anything which is eaten or drunk at the royal table by itself, even if it does not come as an accompaniment to the bread is subject to the prohibition of gentile cooking. Furthermore, the requirement that the food must be something that accompanies bread on the royal table is limited to food items, not liquids. He continues: “Even though when I was younger, I would rely on those who ruled that it is permitted, I have now investigated it thoroughly and cannot find a reason for its permission and therefore I refrain from drinking it.” He found that the Arizal prohibited drinking coffee heated by a gentile. He concludes that he is not prohibiting it for the public, but he himself refrained from drinking it.

Pri Chadash (114:6) writes that it is permitted based on Tosfos (Avodah Zarah 31b): Wheat is nullified in water in regards to reciting the blessing of shehakol, so too it is nullified in regards to the prohibition against gentile cooking. Similarly, the coffee is nullified in the boiling water that it is being cooked with and it is therefore not subject to the prohibition against gentile cooking.

Teshuvos Beis Yehudah (Y”D 21) objects to the reasoning of the Pri Chadash. The Gemora Brochos (39a) rules: The proper blessing on water which was cooked with vegetables is ha’adamah and this is the ruling of the Shulchan Aruch (205:2). The reasoning is based on the fact that this is the common method for these vegetables. Accordingly, the blessing on coffee should be ha’adamah as well. Our custom of reciting shehakol on coffee is astounding, but we cannot add to this novelty by being lenient with the prohibition against gentile cooking.

Rabbi Yaakov Emden in his sefer Mor U’ktziah (204) writes that actually the proper blessing on coffee should be ha’eitz since it is a fruit from a tree and that was the original intent of those that planted the coffee beans; to drink from the liquid. He concludes that the custom is to recite a shehakol anyway, similar to date beer and barley beer.

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Bishul Akum - Yevamos 46 - Daf Yomi

by Rabbi Neustadt

Question: With so many women today in the work force, is it permitted for non-Jewish household help to cook kosher food in one’s kitchen if the cooking is done under the supervision of an observant Jew?

Discussion: With the intention of limiting social interaction between Jews and non-Jews — for socializing is often the first step towards assimilation, the Rabbis decreed against eating certain types of perfectly kosher food which were cooked, baked or roasted by a non-Jew, even if a Jew supervised the entire process from beginning to end. This is the Rabbinical prohibition known as bishul akum. Even b’diavad, if a non-Jew cooked these foods ─ whether in the home of a Jew or in a manufacturing plant ─ it is forbidden (in many cases) to eat them; the cooked food is now considered non-kosher even though the raw food was totally kosher before being cooked by the non-Jew.[1] The pots and pans which in which the food was cooked would — in some cases — have to undergo a koshering process before one would be allowed to use them again for kosher food.[2]

Question: Which types of foods are susceptible to the restrictions of bishul akum?

Discussion: There are basically two criteria which define the type of food which is forbidden because of bishul akum:

· The food must be “important” — that is, food that would be suitable fare for a dinner served to dignitaries. Thus most dishes of poultry, meat, potatoes, pasta, eggs or fish are included, as long as they are prepared in a manner in which important people are customarily served in a formal setting. Candies, potato chips,[3] Pringles, beer, breakfast cereals, canned tuna salmon and sardines,[4] popcorn, etc. are not considered “important” foods no matter how skillfully and tastefully they are prepared.

· Foods which are edible raw (under normal conditions[5]) are exempt from the prohibition of bishul akum, even it they were cooked. Thus most fruits and vegetables, cheeses, water, milk and peanut butter, for example, are exempt from bishul akum, even if they were prepared in a manner fit for a king, since all of these foods are edible when in a raw state.[6]

Question: We have established that “cooking” by a non-Jew renders the food bishul akum. Does that mean that a non-Jew may not participate in any phase of food preparation?

Discussion: The only phase of food preparation that is forbidden to a non-Jew is to place the pot or pan on the stove or inside the oven. The non-Jew may cut, chop, grind, grate, mix, season, etc. He may also turn on the gas or electricity in the stove or oven, regulate the temperature throughout, stir or baste the food while it is cooking, and remove the food once it is cooked or baked. All this is permitted l’chatchilah, as long as the non-Jew is being supervised to ascertain that no kashrus laws are transgressed.[7]

Question: If the non-Jew has already placed the food on the stove or into the oven but has not yet turned on the fire, can the food still qualify as bishul Yisrael?

Discussion: As long as the Jew turns on the fire, the food is considered bishul Yisrael. But, l’chatchilah, this should only be relied upon in this exact case, where the food is already on the stove or in the oven and the fire is being lit after the food has been placed on the stove or in the oven.[8] In the reverse case, where first the Jew turned on the fire and then the non-Jew placed the food on the stove or in the oven, some poskim hold that this is not considered bishul Yisrael. B’diavad, however, most poskim maintain that the food is not considered bishul akum and is permitted to be eaten.[9]

Question: If the non-Jew has already turned on the fire and placed the pot or pan on the stove or inside the oven but the food is not yet completely cooked and ready to eat, can the food still be salvaged and not considered bishul akum?

Discussion: There yet remain three options for the food to be considered bishul Yisrael:

· Remove the pot or pan from the fire or the oven, hold it for a moment, and then replace it. This is permitted l’chatchilah.

· Stir, mix or flip the food over while the pot or pan is still on the fire.

· Regulate the temperature of the fire, either by raising it a bit to hasten the cooking or by lowering it a bit to prevent burning or singeing.

However, if the food is already completely cooked and ready to be eaten, it is too late to avail oneself of any of these three options. The food is considered bishul akum.

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NOT KOSHER ENOUGH - Yevamos 45 - Daf Yomi

The Gemora states that Rav also ruled that the child is fit. There was once a man who came to Rav and asked him: “What is the law regarding a Canaanite slave or an idolater who cohabits with a Jewess?” Rav said: “The child is fit.” The man said: “If so, give me your daughter to marry (the man was from such a union).” Rav replied: “I will not give her to you.” Shimi bar Chiya said to Rav: “People say, ‘A camel in Medea dances in a kav (a camel can dance with its four legs in a small jar – an saying which means that people invent far-fetched stories from far away places that cannot be substantiated).’ We have the kav and the camel, and this is Medea, but it is not dancing (if you ruled that it is permitted, give your daughter to him in marriage).” Rav answered: “Even if he were as great as Yehoshua son of Nun, I would not give my daughter to him.” Shimi told Rav: “If he were as great as Yehoshua son of Nun, even if you will not give him your daughter, others would certainly give him theirs; however, regarding this man, if you do not give him your daughter, nobody will.” Rav refused to change his mind and the man did not leave Rav. Rav gazed upon the man, and he died.

The Gemora states: Rav Masneh also ruled that the child is fit. Rav Yehudah also permitted the child. A man from such a union came to Rav Yehudah and Rav Yehudah said to him: “Go to a place where they will not recognize you, and you can marry a Jewess, or stay here and marry someone of your same type. Rava told the man the same advice.

*** Could Rav have said, “Even if he is as great as Moshe Rabbeinu”?

*** Why didn’t Rav want to give his daughter to him if he himself ruled that the man was qualified?

*** Why did Rav have him killed?

*** How could they give advice to go to another city where they will not be recognized? Shouldn’t this be gneivas da’as?

*** Does lifnei iver apply by a chumrah?

*** Can you sell or give someone something that is kosher, but not according to all opinions?

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Daf Yomi - Moed Katan 12 - DRINKING COFFEE HEATED BY A GENTILE

The Gemora states: Anything which is normally eaten raw is not subject to the prohibition against gentile cooking. (Water does not need to be heated and therefore should not be subject to this prohibition.)

The Radvaz in his teshuvos (3:637) writes: It is permitted to drink coffee heated by a gentile and it is not subject to the prohibition against gentile cooking; even though coffee cannot be eaten in its raw state, it is something which does not eaten at a king’s table as an accompaniment to the bread and therefore it is permitted. There is also no concern that they cooked something forbidden in those pots beforehand, since it is well known that they have designated utensils for the coffee (because otherwise, the taste of the coffee would be ruined). He concludes: One should not drink coffee in the accompaniment of gentiles since that will result in many transgressions.

It is brought like that in the Hagahos from the Maharikash (114) as well. He rules that one should be stringent about drinking coffee in a coffee house of gentiles, similar to the halacha regarding wine and beer. Furthermore, it is considered a moishev leitzim (i.e. a session of jesters) and should be avoided.

The Knesses Hagedolah in his sefer Ba’ey Chayei (Y”D 145) disagrees and maintains that coffee heated by a gentile is prohibited to drink. He states: Anything which is eaten or drunk at the royal table by itself, even if it does not come as an accompaniment to the bread is subject to the prohibition of gentile cooking. Furthermore, the requirement that the food must be something that accompanies bread on the royal table is limited to food items, not liquids. He continues: “Even though when I was younger, I would rely on those who ruled that it is permitted, I have now investigated it thoroughly and cannot find a reason for its permission and therefore I refrain from drinking it.” He found that the Arizal prohibited drinking coffee heated by a gentile. He concludes that he is not prohibiting it for the public, but he himself refrained from drinking it.

Pri Chadash (114:6) writes that it is permitted based on Tosfos (Avodah Zarah 31b): Wheat is nullified in water in regards to reciting the blessing of shehakol, so too it is nullified in regards to the prohibition against gentile cooking. Similarly, the coffee is nullified in the boiling water that it is being cooked with and it is therefore not subject to the prohibition against gentile cooking.

Teshuvos Beis Yehudah (Y”D 21) objects to the reasoning of the Pri Chadash. The Gemora Brochos (39a) rules: The proper blessing on water which was cooked with vegetables is ha’adamah and this is the ruling of the Shulchan Aruch (205:2). The reasoning is based on the fact that this is the common method for these vegetables. Accordingly, the blessing on coffee should be ha’adamah as well. Our custom of reciting shehakol on coffee is astounding, but we cannot add to this novelty by being lenient with the prohibition against gentile cooking.

Rabbi Yaakov Emden in his sefer Mor U’ktziah (204) writes that actually the proper blessing on coffee should be ha’eitz since it is a fruit from a tree and that was the original intent of those that planted the coffee beans; to drink from the liquid. He concludes that the custom is to recite a shehakol anyway, similar to date beer and barley beer.

Read more!

Daf Yomi - Moed Katan 12 - Bishul Akum

by Rabbi Neustadt

Question: With so many women today in the work force, is it permitted for non-Jewish household help to cook kosher food in one’s kitchen if the cooking is done under the supervision of an observant Jew?

Discussion: With the intention of limiting social interaction between Jews and non-Jews — for socializing is often the first step towards assimilation, the Rabbis decreed against eating certain types of perfectly kosher food which were cooked, baked or roasted by a non-Jew, even if a Jew supervised the entire process from beginning to end. This is the Rabbinical prohibition known as bishul akum. Even b’diavad, if a non-Jew cooked these foods ─ whether in the home of a Jew or in a manufacturing plant ─ it is forbidden (in many cases) to eat them; the cooked food is now considered non-kosher even though the raw food was totally kosher before being cooked by the non-Jew.[1] The pots and pans which in which the food was cooked would — in some cases — have to undergo a koshering process before one would be allowed to use them again for kosher food.[2]

Question: Which types of foods are susceptible to the restrictions of bishul akum?

Discussion: There are basically two criteria which define the type of food which is forbidden because of bishul akum:

· The food must be “important” — that is, food that would be suitable fare for a dinner served to dignitaries. Thus most dishes of poultry, meat, potatoes, pasta, eggs or fish are included, as long as they are prepared in a manner in which important people are customarily served in a formal setting. Candies, potato chips,[3] Pringles, beer, breakfast cereals, canned tuna salmon and sardines,[4] popcorn, etc. are not considered “important” foods no matter how skillfully and tastefully they are prepared.

· Foods which are edible raw (under normal conditions[5]) are exempt from the prohibition of bishul akum, even it they were cooked. Thus most fruits and vegetables, cheeses, water, milk and peanut butter, for example, are exempt from bishul akum, even if they were prepared in a manner fit for a king, since all of these foods are edible when in a raw state.[6]

Question: We have established that “cooking” by a non-Jew renders the food bishul akum. Does that mean that a non-Jew may not participate in any phase of food preparation?

Discussion: The only phase of food preparation that is forbidden to a non-Jew is to place the pot or pan on the stove or inside the oven. The non-Jew may cut, chop, grind, grate, mix, season, etc. He may also turn on the gas or electricity in the stove or oven, regulate the temperature throughout, stir or baste the food while it is cooking, and remove the food once it is cooked or baked. All this is permitted l’chatchilah, as long as the non-Jew is being supervised to ascertain that no kashrus laws are transgressed.[7]

Question: If the non-Jew has already placed the food on the stove or into the oven but has not yet turned on the fire, can the food still qualify as bishul Yisrael?

Discussion: As long as the Jew turns on the fire, the food is considered bishul Yisrael. But, l’chatchilah, this should only be relied upon in this exact case, where the food is already on the stove or in the oven and the fire is being lit after the food has been placed on the stove or in the oven.[8] In the reverse case, where first the Jew turned on the fire and then the non-Jew placed the food on the stove or in the oven, some poskim hold that this is not considered bishul Yisrael. B’diavad, however, most poskim maintain that the food is not considered bishul akum and is permitted to be eaten.[9]

Question: If the non-Jew has already turned on the fire and placed the pot or pan on the stove or inside the oven but the food is not yet completely cooked and ready to eat, can the food still be salvaged and not considered bishul akum?

Discussion: There yet remain three options for the food to be considered bishul Yisrael:

· Remove the pot or pan from the fire or the oven, hold it for a moment, and then replace it. This is permitted l’chatchilah.

· Stir, mix or flip the food over while the pot or pan is still on the fire.

· Regulate the temperature of the fire, either by raising it a bit to hasten the cooking or by lowering it a bit to prevent burning or singeing.

However, if the food is already completely cooked and ready to be eaten, it is too late to avail oneself of any of these three options. The food is considered bishul akum.

Read more!