Monday, July 23, 2007


Rabbi Yochanan said as follows: "Were I living in those days, I would have ordained the fast for the 10th of Av; for on that day the greater part of the Beis Hamikdosh was burned." The Chachamim maintained that the day when the calamity began should be observed as a fast-day.

The Kotzker Rebbe asked from that famous Nimukei Yosef in Bava Kamma. Rabbi Yochanan holds that one is liable for sending out a fire because it is akin to shooting an arrow (isho mishum chitzov). The Nimukei Yosef explains that this is why one is permitted to light candles Friday afternoon even though they will be burning on Shabbos; since the candles were lit from before Shabbos, that is when he shot the arrow. According to this, why is Rabbi Yochanan stating here that he would have declared the fast on the tenth of Av if the fire started on the ninth?

The answer is that regarding Shabbos and damages, we are concerned with the action; when it occurred and how it happened. Regarding the Beis Hamikdosh being destroyed; we are not concerned with the action, rather with the result and it was burned on the tenth of Av. This is why Rabbi Yochanan said that if he were living in those days, he would have ordained the tenth of Av as the fast day. (Margaliyos HaShas)


Anonymous said...

You mean gavra cheftzah right?

Anonymous said...

Its also a footnote in Sheorim Mitzuyanim B’halacha

Avromi said...

Similar to gavra and cheftza.

Which footnote?

Anonymous said...

Aveilus is a din in the cheftzah of the beis hamikdash,Mazikin is a din in the gavrah who sets the fire
Ah i just realized my mistake I meant HAmoadim Khalacha on daf תטז footnote 85

Anonymous said...

Hashem removed His presence from the Bais HaMikdash before it was destroyed and only after that was the enemy able to ignite it. This is precisely the reason we fast on the 9th and not the 10th because the fast is for the loss of the Shechina which happened on the 9th. The 10th was anticlimactic with the burning of an empty shell that was no longer Hashem's home.

Anonymous said...

The answer from the website

Mr Bagel said...

Thanks for the post Avromi
Its interesting that different emphasis has been placed on the breach of the wall, the start of the fire or when the most damage had occurred.
Shalom Mr Bagel