Wednesday, May 21, 2008

An Idolater is Stricter than a Jew

The Rishonim ask: It is evident from our Gemora that according to the one that holds that an informed minor, who has not quite reached manhood, can only Rabbinically pronounce a vow, but Biblically, it will not be effective; nevertheless, with respect to an idolater, an informed minor, who has not quite reached manhood, may pronounce a vow and it will be Biblically binding. Why would this be? How can an idolater be more stringent that a Jew?

The Mefaresh explains that there are other examples where we find that the law is stricter with an idolater than it is with respect of a Jew. The Mishna in Bava Kamma teaches us that if the ox of idolater gores an animal belonging to a Jew, the idolater is liable to pay full damages, even if the ox gored for the first time. A Jew, however, whose ox gores for the first time, will only be liable to pay half-damages.

Tosfos suggests the following: A Jewish adult is subject to the prohibition against desecrating his word. Accordingly, we expound that any Jew who is not included in this prohibition cannot pronounce a vow. A minor, who is not subject to this commandment, cannot therefore utter a vow, which would be Biblically valid. An idolater, however, who is not included in this prohibition, cannot be excluded from pronouncing a vow based on this, and therefore, even a minor’s vow would be Biblically binding.

It is evident from Tosfos that the prohibition against desecrating his word is not applicable to an idolater. The Mishna L’melech cites proofs that an idolater is obligated to keep his word based upon the prohibition against desecrating his word.

The Ohr Sameach answers this question by citing the Chasam Sofer, who says that any idolater, even a minor is obligated to observe their commandments. This explains why with respect to idolaters, an informed minor, who has not quite reached manhood, can pronounce a vow and it will be Biblically valid, whereas a Jewish minor cannot. By an idolater, there is no distinction whatsoever between a minor and an adult. Proof to this is from the Rosh, who states that the guidelines for a minor to reach adulthood are learned from an oral tradition that was transmitted to Moshe at Sinai with respect to all measurements. These laws were given to the Jewish people; not for the idolaters.

24 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have some questions on todays Daf
1) It says we are not Mitameh to Evarim, Does that mean a Cohen does not go to a blood bank?
2)There was also we go after the father by Gentiles if so what about "BNEI BANIM SHEL HAMMAN LOMDU TORAH BBNEI BRAK"?
3)It says anger by a wpmen ruins the home but man does not but again we have "AL YITAIN ADAM EIMAH YISARAH BITOCH BEISAH"?

Avromi said...

I'm not a posek, so I'm not sure about a blood bank, but possibly there is no tumah there at all. I don't recall seeing that blood from a live person is metamei.

Once they are megayer, which is a question in itself if we accept them, they are not meyuchas after their father.

The Be'er Eliezer says that while it's true that eimah yeseirah from the man is very bad, our Gemora is referring to the domestic house, and that is much worse when the woman is angry.

Yasherkoach!

Anonymous said...

thank FOR THE SECOND AND THIRD BUT YOUR FIRST STATEMENT IS MY QUESTION WHY IS IT NOT MITAMEH

Avromi said...

You're very welcome; it is my pleasure.

Why are you comparing limbs to blood? Who says that it is the same?

Anonymous said...

WHY NOT?WHAT ELSE IS IT?

Avromi said...

I never saw that blood from a live person is metamei; I did some research now and couldn't find either way. I will bli neder look some more.

Anonymous said...

The gemara in Sanhedrin (daf 4a) cites a machloket between the Rabanan and R. Akiva regarding the quantity (shiur) of blood required to confer tumah in other items which come into contact with the blood or are found under the same roof as the blood.

Avromi said...

That Gemora is the same Gemora that we recently had in Nazir. I did confirm with a Rabbi that a Kohen may go to a blood bank.

Avromi said...

Rambam Tumas Meis 2:12-13

Anonymous said...

יב וכן אצבע יתרה שיש בה עצם, ואין בה ציפורן--אם נספרת, עולה למניין רוב האברים. ואם אינה נספרת--מטמאה במגע ובמשא, ואינה מטמאה באוהל; וטומאתה מדבריהם. ואם היה בה ציפורן, הרי היא כשאר האברים.

יג ומפני מה גזרו טומאה על אצבע שאינה נספרת, גזירה משום הנספרת. ולמה לא טימאוה באוהל: עשו לה היכר, כדי להודיע שטומאתה מדבריהם משום גזירה--כדי שלא ישרפו על טומאתה, תרומה וקודשים

Anonymous said...

So the answer is it is Tumah just no Tumas Ohel?

Avromi said...

I wish i would be an expert in Rambam so I would be able to tell you where your Rambam is, but that is not the one I cited.

Avromi said...

No! The Rambam in halacha 13 states דם החי הרי זה טהור כל זמן שהוא חי

Anonymous said...

here is all the rambam can you cut and paste it
http://kodesh.snunit.k12.il/i/0.htm

Anonymous said...

Wait so why not? Our gemurah says it is?

Avromi said...

כג [יג] דם החי, אפילו דם נחירה--הרי זה טהור, כל זמן שהוא חי. נתערב הדם שיצא ממנו באחרונה סמוך למיתה, עם הדם שיצא ממנו אחר שמת, וכל התערובת רביעית, ואין ידוע כמה יצא מחיים וכמה יצא אחר מיתה--אפילו חצי רביעית מחיים, וחצייה אחר מיתה--הרי זה נקרא דם תבוסה, ומטמא במגע ובמשא ובאוהל: אלא שטומאתו, מדברי סופרים.

Avromi said...

Our Gemora only talks about limbs; not blood.

Anonymous said...

I knew that Blood is Not Mitameh My question is why What is the diffrence between an organ and blood I dont get it? Thanks for the Answers whats the Nafka Mina?

Yedid said...

Great "back and forth"!

By the way, do you know for certain that the blood in a blood bank comes solely from live people?

Anonymous said...

Thats a good question too, you probably have a Chazakah or at least it was taken while he was alive and hence keeps its original status.

Avromi said...

A doctor told me that there is no chance that the blood in a blood bank is from a dead person.

Anonymous said...

Really if person A donates blood and then goes outside and gets hit by a car and dies they remove the blood from Circulation?

Avromi said...

that blood is not tamei;

the blood that will be Rabbinically tamei is blood that comes out of a live person as he is dying and is mixed with blood that came out after he died.

Anonymous said...

as i said myself
or at least it was taken while he was alive and hence keeps its original status.