Friday, July 14, 2006

Yoma 38 Throw me Overboard!

The Gemora tells us that on Niknor's way back from Mitzrayim with the doors, there was a terrible storm. They were forced to throw one of them overboard. The storm did not subside and they subsequently wanted to throw the second one off, as well. Niknor proclaimed that if so, throw me overboard with it. With that proclamation, the storm subsided. What was the heter for him to make such a statement? (See אסיפת זקנים)

7 comments:

David said...

Maybe he derived it, somehow, from Yonah?

Avromi said...

The difference, i think is that by Yonah it was decided that people are the cause, here the issue seems to have been purely weight and from the loshon hagemora, throwing the door overboard would have been sufficient.

ben said...

Daf Digest quotes Chezkas HaYam that there was no justification. See further there. They quote at the end Harav Elyashiv shlita who anseres that he did it because of chilul HaShem that people would say all this effort for Bais HaMikdash and now doors are lost. Sounds like a great answer but leaves me wondering, can one kill himself so there's no chilul HaShem? I once said that Moshe was chayav misah for not giving son milah because he was from Shevet Levi and they set standard in Mitzrayim to perform bris milah, so if he, their leader, does not do milah on his son, it will be chilul Hashem.

ben said...

see also artscroll 38a1 note 3 quoting Yaavetz and Ben Yehoyada

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

"I once said that Moshe was chayav misah for not giving son milah because he was from Shevet Levi and they set standard in Mitzrayim to perform bris milah, so if he, their leader, does not do milah on his son, it will be chilul Hashem."

Do you have a makor, because it seems mashmah from the rambam that yaharog v'al yavor will apply in regards to chillul hashem but only for the gimel avereios. (bshas hashmad it seems that it's not tuli in chillul hashem) (rambam yesodei hatorah- I beleive around perek 5)

ben said...

no mekor. but not clear on rambam. I am referring to chayav misah bidei shamayim, not someone being killed bidei adam.