Wednesday, August 08, 2007

RIDDLES

(The following are riddles on the possible complications of relatives, proposed in order to arm the Torah scholars against the heretics.) My paternal brother, but not my maternal brother; and he is the husband of my mother and I am the daughter of his wife. (This may be stated by a daughter who was born as a result of her father violating a woman, where the son of the father by another wife has subsequently married her mother.) Rami bar Chama said: Such a relationship is not halachically possible according to the ruling of Rabbi Yehudah in our Mishna (since Rabbi Yehudah maintains that one may not marry a woman with whom his father violated).

A woman says: He whom I carry on my shoulder is my brother and my son, and I am his sister. This is possible when an idolater cohabited with his own daughter, and had a son by her. (This child is her son and her brother.)

A woman says: Greetings to you my son; I am the daughter of your sister. This is possible where an idolater cohabited with his own daughter's daughter. (She is the child’s mother and its sister’s daughter.)

Men who draw water with pails, we shall ask you a riddle that defies solution: He whom I carry is my son and I am the daughter of his brother. This is possible where an idolater cohabited with his own son’s daughter. (She is the child’s mother and its brother’s daughter.)

A woman says: Woe, woe! For my brother who is my father, who is my husband, who is the son of my husband; he is the husband of my mother and I am the daughter of his wife; and he provides no food for his orphan brothers, the children of his daughter. This is possible when an idolater cohabited with his mother and had a daughter from her. He then cohabited with that daughter (becoming her husband).Then the idolater’s father cohabited with her (thus becoming the grandfather’s husband as well) and had children from her. (The idolater is the daughter’s brother; he is her father; he is her husband; he is the son of her (second) husband; he is the husband of her mother; she is the daughter of his wife.)

A woman says: I and you are brother and sister, I and your father are brother and sister, and I and your mother are sisters. This is possible where an idolater cohabited with his mother and had two daughters from her. He then cohabited with one of these and had a son from her. When the son's mother's sister (the other daughter) carries him, she addresses him in this manner.

I and you are the children of sisters, I and your father are the children of brothers, and I and your mother are the children of brothers. This indeed is possible also in the case of a permissible marriage. There were for instance, three brothers; Reuven, Shimon and Levi. Reuven had two daughters, and Shimon came and married one of them. And then came the son of Levi, and married the other. The son of Shimon can address the grandson of Levi in this manner.

3 comments:

Michael Sedley said...

Thanks for your clear explanation of these Riddles.
If you're interested, I drew diagrams of these cases, and for one of the diagrams I used your translation - you can check it out here:
http://betweenjerusalemandtelaviv.blogspot.com/2007/08/daf-yomi-yevamot-97b-riddles.html

I'd be interested to hear any suggestions from you how I could make these diagrams clearer.

Avromi said...

ok thanks; I will check it out later tonight bli neder. I also will let you know how to post your link in a comment that it's linkable.

Yasherkoach

Avromi said...

I apologize on that last comment: I'm sure you can teach me way more than the reverse.