Sunday, September 10, 2006

Daf Yomi - Sukkah 8 - Rain or Shade

Kintzker Rov in Chelkas Yoav 28 rules that a sukkah does not have to be made with the intention to provide shade - it has to have the correct amount of s'chach that it can provide shade. He cites different Gemoros and Poskim to prove this. (He cites proof to this from Rashi in the beginning of the Mesechta, however I'm not sure which Rashi he is referring to).

Our Gemora states that the reason that a goy, woman or animal can make a sukkah is because a sukkah does not have to be built with the intention for the mitzva, it is valid as long as the intention was to be used for shade. This is evidently not like the Chelkas Yoav?

The Chelkas Yoav explains that it is only required to be made with the intention of providing shade if the sukkah was not being made for the sake of the mitzva, however a sukkah which is being made for the sake of mitzvas sukkah does not need to made with the intention of providing shade.

This can be used to answer another question that is asked. The Gemora on daf 2 cited an example of a sukkah that was made in a valley and is valid. One can ask how can this be, there is no shade coming from the s'chach? (There is a proof from Gemora 22 that theoratic shade is sufficient.) According to the Chelkas Yoav, we can answer that it was made for the sake of the mitzva and that is sufficient.

Rabbi Dovid Goldberg answers this question based on a Rosh that seems to say that providing shade is not the only intention one could have to validate a sukkah. If one places s'chach on a sukkah to protect him from the elements, such as rain, that also is valid.


eliezer said...

Is that not the whole point of the gemara on daf 2, that since the s'chach isn't providing the shade it is a question on the opinion that above 20 amos is passul because above 20 amos doesn't provide shade in the succah? And doesn't Rabbah answer theoretical shade?

Avromi said...

on your second question i think you mean reb zeira.
the way i understood the two sugyos is as follows: on daf beis the other amoroim disagreed with reb zeira that we do not need people to sit in the shade of the s'chach and reb zeira said yes. the question was not on the intention of the one making the sukkah. our gemora was mechadesh that a sukkah has to be made lshem tzel. do all the amoroim on daf beis agree with this? if yes, what happens when it is made in a valley? the gemora on daf beis states that the theoratic shade is good for the person fulfilling his mitzva, but is it good if there is a halacha that the sukkah must be made with that intention?
bli neder i will look into more

eliezer said...

You are right that the gemara on daf beis isn't dealing with the intention of the one making the succah, but since that gemara is asking about something else one can assume any intention they would want for the builder.One can say he built it for shade or l'shem mitzvah and yet the gemara answers theoretical shade.